James Crumbley tells son day of shooting: 'You have people you can talk to'

Pontiac — In a school counselor's office before the Oxford High School shooter opened fire in the hallways in November 2021, James Crumbley told his then 15-year-old son that there were people in his life he could talk to, the counselor testified Monday.

Counselor Shawn Hopkins and Nick Ejak, who was the school's dean of students, both testified Monday about Crumbley speaking to his son during a Nov. 30, 2021, meeting in Hopkins' office. The meeting was held after the teen drew disturbing pictures on a math worksheet and words such as "The thoughts won't stop" and "blood everywhere."

While Hopkins and Ejak painted Jennifer Crumbley's ending of the meeting as "abrupt" — asking, "Are we done?" — both men said James Crumbley spoke to his son during the roughly 10-minute meeting.

“(James) mentioned that, ‘You have people you can talk to. You can talk to your counselor, you have your journal, we can talk,’ and it felt appropriate at that time” Hopkins said.

Crumbley's words to his son were one of the few new details to emerge during his trial Monday, now in its fifth day.

Crumbley is being tried on four counts of involuntary manslaughter in connection with the deaths of four students his son, Ethan, fatally shot on Nov. 30, 2021 — Hana St. Juliana, 14; Justin Shilling, 17; Tate Myre, 16; and Madisyn Baldwin, 16 — just hours after that meeting in Hopkins' office. His rare trial marks only the second time a parent has been tried in connection with a mass shooting carried out by their child.

Testimony on Monday focused heavily on not just Oxford school officials but the Crumbleys' three guns, how they were stored and if the shooter had access to them.

Brett Brandon, a special agent with the Alcohol, Tobacco, Firemans and Explosives agency who helped execute the search warrant on the Crumbleys' home the night of the 2021 shooting, testified about a video the shooter shared with a friend that showed him holding the 9mm gun, the safety off, in his family's home with his cat nearby.

Defense Attorney Mariell Lehman pointed out that Crumbley could've been nearby when the video was taken. She also questioned if Crumbley knew about it.

“Regardless of if Mr. Crumbley was standing over his shoulder, it would not be safe,” Brandon said of a video.

'I can see why this looks bad'

Monday marked the fifth day of Crumbley's trial and all of the witnesses who testified also took the stand at Crumbley's wife Jennifer's trial on the same charges earlier this year. She was found guilty and is set to be sentenced in April. Their son, shooter Ethan Crumbley, was sentenced to life without parole in prison in December.

Hopkins, the school counselor, testified that he received at least three separate emails from different teachers about the shooter and concerning behavior, dating back to May 2021: one that he was failing her class and trying to sleep all the time; one about a poem he wrote in class that his life was "terrible" and his family was "a mistake;" and another in November that he was struggling.

The first two times, Hopkins said he did not speak to the shooter, but he stopped him in the hall after the November email about the teen struggling to let him know he was there if he needed to talk.

Hopkins said the next time he heard about the shooter was Nov. 29, when he was included in an email about the shooter looking up bullets in class.

The teen's name came up again Nov. 30 when Hopkins was sent a picture of the disturbing math worksheet. Along with the words, there were also drawings of a gun and a body with bullet holes.

"Some of the things that concerned me the most is what was written on it," testified Hopkins, who noted that many students were struggling mentally during COVID. "... My initial thought was this student is drawing things that lead me to believe he might hurt himself."

When Hopkins asked the shooter if he had a suicide plan, based on the math worksheet, he said, “I can see why this looks bad, I’m not going to do anything.”

Both Hopkins and Ejak, the dean of students, said they viewed the shooter — who had no previous disciplinary issues at the school — as someone having mental health issues, not a disciplinary problem.

Nothing the shooter said or did indicated a need to search his backpack the day of the shooting, Ejak said, so he did not have “reasonable suspicion” needed to do so.

Lehman, Crumbley's attorney, pressed Ejak on not viewing the shooter as a threat, given the information he had. But Oakland County Assistant Prosecuting Attorney Marc Keast asked about the information Ejak wasn't given, including that the family had guns in their home and the shooter's best friend moving away.

Had he known what he knows now, including that the family had guns in their home, Ejak said he “100 percent would have looked at things differently.”

"I knew very little of what we all know today. I knew a fraction," he said.

Meeting with Oxford counselor

Hopkins said after calling Jennifer and James Crumbley and meeting with them, he gave them a list of resources to get their son help. He'd hoped they'd take their son home but they said they had to work. Worried about him being alone, Hopkins wrote the teen a pass to go back to class.

"My concern was him," said Hopkins.

Hopkins said he made the decision to allow the shooter to go back to class based on the options he had at the time — that his parents couldn't take him home because they had to work and he didn't want him to be alone.

"We all know what happened," Lehman said. "It's easy to look back and say different decisions could've been made. "

'He drew a murder'

Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald went through each of the Crumbleys' two gun cases and one gun safe, asking Brandon how they could be locked and holding up a trigger lock that came with the 9mm SIG Sauer used in the shooting.

Brandon said it was “possible” the lock for the 9mm had been opened, but he said if it had been used consistently there would be more tearing on the plastic bag it was found in. The cable lock was found in a case for another gun in the kitchen.

"I found no evidence that a cable lock was ever installed on that firearm," Brandon said.

The sounds of gunshots could be heard throughout the courtroom Monday as prosecutors played several videos of the shooter at gun ranges leading up to the shooting. One showed the shooter and his father at a gun range a few months before the massacre.

Prosecutors also showed a video the shooter sent to his friend in November 2021, where he was showing off the gun his parents had bought him as an early Christmas present. In it, the shooter was standing over the table holding the gun, which had the safety disengaged. The gun was pointed at what would be around chest level, Brandon said.

"Obviously that firearm is loaded," he said.

GPS locations showed earlier in Crumbley's trial show he was at the home at the time the video was made, though there was no indication in the video if he was in the room with the shooter or was aware of it. And Lehman continued to press Brandon on if the investigation ever revealed James Crumbley knew about the video.

During her cross examination, Lehman also pointed out that Brandon couldn't know with absolute certainty the SIG Sauer had no trigger lock on it when the shooter took it from the house.

"Is it a certainty? No. I think it's highly improbable," Brandon replied.

Brandon said the gun the shooter drew on the math worksheet looked very similar to the SIG Sauer his parents bought him.

When Prosecutor Karen McDonald asked Brandon his impression of the drawings on the worksheet, Brandon said he drew "his gun," referring to Ethan Crumbley.

"He drew the murder," he said.

kberg@detroitnews.com